Citizens emails

ALL SURNAMES HAVE BEEN DELETED

Dear Pat,
I am writing to you out of concern about NAMA, and requesting that you do not lend your support to this dangerous and, I believe, foolish measure on behalf of the Irish government. As the high court ruling on the Liam Carroll appeal has proved, there is simply no evidence that the property market will be restored to anything like its pre-recession state, and thus NAMA is fundamentally and deeply flawed. The property prices of the boom period constituted an typical economic ‘bubble’, meaning that property prices will not rise to the same level in the future, but rather settle at a more affordable and realistic rate. The logic of NAMA relies on an unevidenced conjecture suggesting exactly the opposite of this.

There are alternatives to NAMA, alternatives that will not cripple the Irish economy for years to come. Please think of the future, which really is in your hands now, and speak out against NAMA,

Yours Sincerely,
Emer

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my name is mary-anne, i am 27 years old and born in ireland, since i have been able to vote, i have always voted green party, and was so thrilled to see you in the dail,

however if the green party supports nam, i will stop supporting the green party, and i know others who feel this way. I feel that there will be serious long-lasting negative consequences such as higher taxes and further severe cutbacks.

does the green party support nam, i really would like to know that so i can make an informed decision.

thank you

mary-anne

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Dear Mrs Kavanagh,

I am writing to you today to voice my concern regarding one of the most important pieces of legislation the Irish state has ever had to consider.

I am asking for your help in doing everything in your power to ensure that NAMA (in it’s current form) does not go ahead in September.

This bill has the potential to bankrupt our country and saddle ourselves and future generations with crippling debt, and we must not stand idly by while the developers and shareholders are bailed out.

Unfortunately due to the bank guarantee the alternatives are somewhat limited however I still believe that:

– We should be receiving equity for our support, which will give the taxpayer *some *chance of recouping funds in the future – We should investigate all the options for a ‘Good Bank’ which could receive assistance from the state and begin lending again.

There have been many arguments against nationalisation due to the bank guarantee however I would prefer to take the pain for 1-2 years allow the guarantee to expire, allow market forces to decide if the banks are viable rather than a long protracted Japanese style zombified banking quagmire which will take 15 – 20 years to right itself.

We must also be very careful to ensure full transparency at most +1 year after each transaction has occurred to provide a balance of commercial sensitivity with checks and balances to ensure no corruption can take place.

As a member of the Green Party I would like to ask you if you support NAMA?

I look forward to your response,
Sincerely,
MIchael
Malahide Co Dublin

PS: If you are not already aware there is some informed debate occurring on the economy section of http://www.politics.ie which I recommend you take a look at.

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There is an important point which I think you should know before you vote infavour of NAMA.

A recent report from the Insolvency Journal

http://www.insolvencyjournal.ie/news/09-08-07/NAMA_bill_grants_hefty_powers.aspx

states that the draft NAMA bill includes the following important provision:

“Legal exemptions: when assets are transferred to NAMA, the act gives the agency the right to bypass certain restrictions set out in the Companies Act, such as the prohibition on the sale of assets or the granting of loans to directors or connected persons”

In plain language that means that NAMA can sell assets back to developers and can even lend the money to the developers to buy those assets.

Combine this with the fact that all NAMA transaction are secret and it’s not hard to surmise that the loans belonging to the “golden circle” of chosen developers will be purchased from the banks with a very large haircut and NAMA can then lend the money to the developers in question to buy these assets back for a little more.

No doubt the minister will deny this, but the provision is there clear for all to see.

If you vote in favour of NAMA you are voting for the continuation of the cute hoorism that got us into this mess.

You are voting for the mass rip-off of the Irish taxpayer to bail out the golden circle.

Regards

Tom

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Please rethink the NAMA project, it is not in the voters/countries interest.

I think you are already aware of this.

Be brave on this issue and you will rewarded at the next General Election.

Thank You,

Aidan P.

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Dear all,

I was made redundant from my role at (an accountancy firm named) in October of 2008 – nearly a year ago.  I have attached for your attention a copy of an Irish Examiner article relating to Starting Today, a series of seminars I ran to help others.  I am not one to flee or hide when things are difficult.  The editor generously described me as a ‘poster girl for the recession’.  My once buoyant attitude to what has happened to me and many others has been gradually worn away and deflated with daily news of NAMA, banks and government.  I have been working so hard for the past 4 months, with NO PAY, trying to set up a new business….but what is the point?  What is the point of investing my career and my future in a country with NAMA…an economy where for years and years to come I will fund the mistakes of greedy bankers and developers, facilitated by Fianna Fail?  I think its time to emmigrate for the second time (and I’m only 36) – please give me a reason to stay, please vote down the NAMA nonsense.  Anything else would be better.

Sincerely,

Joan
PS – In the interests of being open and honest, I am happy to tell you that I am a member of the National Executive Council of Fine Gael.  But you are the party in power and I need your help.

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Mr. Kavanagh,

I am writing to convey my concern with The Green Party’s tacit support of the NAMA proposal.

As I see it, the public is to be saddled with punitive debt for decades to bail out failed speculators.

NAMA, by definition, is designed to overpay for bank “assets” and unsalable properties. If this were not the case then the banks would call in failed loans and sell to the market at market prices.

That’s the very definition of Legal Plunder: the government will forcibly take for an elite, that which they cannot legally take for themselves.

People have a civic responsibility to each other to question what is happening at the moment.

I am encouraging my friends, family, and colleagues to question whether you are truly representing their interests, and to use their vote accordingly.

Yours sincerely,
Garret

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I wish to raise a key concern with you as my public representative in relation to NAMA and the government’s bad loans plans.  I am concerned about the logic and unspecified nature of the plan, which has not been eased by the publication of the draft NAMA legislation. The Bill provides a very elastic concept of ‘long-term value’ as the basis for valuing the impaired
bank loans, and gives the Minister very substantial powers as to how this will be estimated and a lack of accountability.

It is, in essence, a request for an enormous blank cheque to buy property at inflated prices by the same Government that, until recently, were telling us that the property bubble was based on sound economic fundamentals. Furthermore, there is no guarantee that this huge gamble will result in a  resumption of normal credit flows to struggling Irish businesses.

regards
Bernie

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To whom it may concern,

I am sure at this point you have received endless emails just like this and  i don’t think  you will read them, but at some point you have to take notice and see what the people really want, after all “the people ” are the reason for a government.

Persons with authority in governments often seek to manipulate laws to their own benefit, under the public guise that the laws and decisions are for the *benefit *of the governed. In even the most benign forms of government, the high-ranking members of that government are likely in a position to manipulate economic policies, law enforcement, the judicial process, *tax policy,* *lucrative contracts*, and the selective taking of land, that are the normal perogatives of government. Many governments are created with a system of Checks and Balances to mitigate the tendency of concentrated power to be abused.

We are the people of this country and we deserve to be taken seriously, the government and banks have put this country into rack and rune and we have had enough, my husband and i have struggled hard to try and provide some kind of life for our small family, the people making the crazy decisions for US need to see who it is really affecting, my family will be the ones to feel the serious long-lasting negative consequences for the Irish taxpayer in the form of higher taxes and further severe cutbacks., the people responsible for this will walk away, it is jail they should be heading to, they should as any other civilian have to answer for what they did.

regaurds

kelly

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Hi There,

I’d like to voice my opposition to NAMA.

I don’t think it is the right solution for Ireland’s problems.

I voted for the green party over several recent elections and I’d now like  to see the party grow some balls and do the right thing by opposing NAMA.
It’s nearly (but not yet) to late to come up with a better solution. e.g. nationalisation.

I have a young child and another one on the way so I can’t leave the country…otherwise I’d be straight out of here because I am spitting with anger at the state of the place, and quite overwhelmed at the outlook for
the future. Please help us out of this unprecedented mess.

Regards,

Murray

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i am emailing you to inform you that you will never get my vote again in you do not leave this goverment and destroy NAMA
*Paul

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Dear Ms Kavanagh,

I am emailing to urge you to vote against NAMA in the upcoming convention. I am truly concerned about the impact this legislation will have on our economy, our country and future generations. We are being asked to trust a government that has betrayed out trust too many times. Please vote against NAMA, find an alternative and seek a proper electoral mandate to implement that alternative.

Respectfully yours

A concerned voter

June

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Hi

Our children will end up paying for this blunder. Please do not gamble my money on NAMA, it will not solve our financial problems, you know that.

Regards

Thomas

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Good evening,

I understand you are all senior members of the Green Party. I actually don’t usually send emails Government policy but I’ve some pretty strong views on NAMA and I hope you and your party will give consideration to my opinion when considering the issue.

I worked in a mid-level position in retail banking for 7 years before setting up my own business in the retail sector two years ago. The business ceased trading earlier in the year due to the effects of the
current downturn. I would like to believe my experience in both   sectors has given me a reasonable understanding of the issues facing the banking industry and SMEs in general.

I believe the current NAMA proposals fail for two critical reasons:

(1)    They move the entire balance sheet risk from the various financial institutions to the Irish State. While I accept the State must intervene to protect systemic banking institutions, I don’t accept their shareholders should be given a ‘free pass’. At a time when frontline services in Health and Education are being cut and Welfare payments slashed it is astonishing that shareholders in financial institutions should be left in a position where they will be protected while the weakest sections of our society suffer.

(2)    The proposals do little in reality to promote the growth of new   SMEs. The lack of funding for day-to-day operations of small business is strangling the economy and killing jobs. The retention of old and the creation of new jobs should be THE singular policy of this Government. I see nothing in the NAMA legislation that will meaningfully tackle this. Policy must be Jobs, Jobs, Jobs! if we are to recover.

I voted for Ciaran Cuffe and Barry Andrews at the last General Election. I’m afraid Fianna Fáil has deserted the vulnerable and the marginalised, so I won’t be voting for any representative of that party again. However I’m happy to give the Greens a second chance. Where you have had the opportunity your Ministers have taken hard decisions and implemented some very innovative policies.

If Fianna Fail are to be pushed into accepting a more equitable and innovative plan, the NAMA issue is going to require real leadership on the part of your party. If play your hand, you’ll have made a real difference and secured my vote for the future!

Look forward to hearing your thoughts and thanks for your time!

Yours sincerely,

Victor

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Hi guys, I know you’re getting it in the neck over a situation that was not of your making but you do have the powerto do something about it now. I’d just like to add my voice to those who say they will not be voting for the Greens again or giving any preferences if they support NAMA.

Fianna Fáil’s economic policies are ideologically driven, they seem to want to avoid certain solutions “at all costs”. I hear phrases like (albeit from an advisor) “at all costs” and “whatever cheques are necessary” and I’m genuinely worried. Do they mean they’ll continue putting money into lost causes indefinitely?

Thanks for reading.

JS.

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Dear Green Party member,

I have in the past regularly voted Green (usually number two, after Labour). At the recent local elections I could not bring myself to support the Green party on any level for fear that my vote could in any way be mistaken for support for Fianna Fáil.  I believe that the policies of successive FF majority governments have treated this country like an economy run for the benefit of an oligarchy, not like a society run for the benefit of all the citizens. Worse still I believe that most FF TDs and Ministers don’t even understand the difference. However I still have faith that the Greens are different, that Green public representatives can think critically about the impact of government policy on our whole society and that they understand that fairness is vitally important to social cohesion. That is why I am hoping against hope that the Green Party will put the good of our society first and will reject NAMA. If the Greens make this stand they will   undoubtedly regain the support of voters like myself who are basically sympathetic to their policies and ethos. I also believe that a large section of the population will recognise the rejection of NAMA as the patriotic act that it is.

Below is a copy of a standard letter (adapted from thepropertypin.com) that I have sent to my local TDs, it expresses succinctly why I am so worried about NAMA.

*”I would like to express my concerns with regard to the proposed NAMA legislation.

The recent events in the High Court and Supreme Court regarding the properties of Mr. Liam Carroll have shown the Irish Electorate the value of his property interests. This valuation shows that the “long-term economic valuation” for the assets to be purchased by the tax payer is grossly flawed and the economic theory behind such proposed valuation also to be dangerously flawed. In the High Court, Justice Kelly ridiculed Liam   Carroll’s proposed rescue plan, which also referred to “long-term economic valuation”, as “fanciful”. The Supreme Court then upheld Justice Kelly’s decision and also went so far as to say the there was no “objective evidence” to support such a notion.

It is now clear, to all but those who will not see, that NAMA will purchase these assets at a value that is greatly exaggerated when compared to the valuation put on the representative assets of Liam Carroll’s companies based   on the best opinions offered in both the High Court and the Supreme Court. The effect of this will be to give to the bondholders and shareholders of major financial institutions, the future growth and development of a generation; our schools, our hospitals, our security and our infrastructure. It will give to NAMA, letters of indenture for every man, woman and child in  this nation. The moral hazard for investing in stocks, shares and bonds rests not with the taxpayer but with the shareholders and bondholders.

NAMA’s raison d’être appears to be to avoid the nationalisation of the banks and thereby protect the assets of the investors in those banks. As drafted, NAMA is protecting the interests of those who consciously, deliberately and with knowledge of the risks involved, put up capital to share in any profits accrued from such ventures. The NAMA legislation now retrospectively removes that risk and passes the losses, that are morally, ethically and legally those of the investors, to the Irish people.

At no point would the investors in the major financial institutions have passed their profits on to the Irish people, other than in their legal obligation under tax legislation, had the pendulum swung in the other direction. It is morally reprehensible that the Irish people are now to be burdened with their losses.

When you enter the Dáil chamber to vote on this particular piece of legislation, please remember that you are the messenger of the people to the Dáil and not the messenger of the Dáil to the people”.*

Thank you for taking the time to read my email

Yours sincerely

Mary

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Hi there

I just want to voice my opposition to the FF NAMA idea. I feel without the nationalisation of the banks it can only bring negative consequences for the Irish taxpayer.

IF it goes ahead based upon the market I feel anything less than a 70% write down would be nothing less than a huge disservice to the people of Ireland.

I have faith that the Greens will do the correct thing and object to this proposal or at least take it via referendum to the people.

Thanks for listening

Dara

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Hi,

I am emailing you just as a constituent in relation to the story that the Greens may be holding a members convention on the NAMA legislation. I wonder are the Clare Greens going to vote on a motion for such a convention? In any case in the event of such a convention taking place I would just like the Clare Greens to be aware of the concerns of a constituent re NAMA. I in particular object to the proposal to value of assets on a notional long-term economic valuation especially as both the High and Supreme Court have rubbished similar suggestions in the Liam O’Carroll Examinership case.
Justice Kelly in the High Court called similar proposals as ‘fanciful’ and the Supreme Court said there was no ‘objective evidence’ to support such a contention. The NAMA proposal to purchase assets at possibly a multiple of their current market value represents a massive transfer of wealth from the ordinary citizens of this State to the shareholders and bondholders of the main financial institutions. Moral hazard demands that it is the shareholders and bondholders that should be the first to take the hit of losses – not the taxpayer. It would be appear that NAMA is being set up to avoid the nationalisation of the main financial institutions, however, a corollary of this is the enrichment of those who consciously put up risk capital to share in the rewards of profits are not being asked to take the downside of losses. This would appear to be a classic case of privatising the profits and socialising the losses. I would request that the Clare Greens consider the views of their constituents if there is a vote on NAMA at a party convention.

Regards,
Kevin

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Hi,

I’m appealing to your sense of patriotism not to put this country into debt  from which it will not recover for generations.

Obviously the bank guarantee has gotten into this mess, and the Green Party did not know a lot about that.  A friend of mine was working for Liam Carroll’s company at the time and knows well the influence that Carroll had over the bank guarantee.

NAMA is just more debt.  We, the people, need you, as our elected representatives to stand up and resist this culture of debt that has gotten us into this mess.  How can the solution be to spend more money?

Spending money that we don’t have is what got us into this mess.  How can the solution be the same as the problem?

Question the rationale of the people supporting NAMA, question why the banks are keeping the developers on life support until their loans can be handed over to NAMA.  Do not let the trickery of the bankers fool you.

Listen to the advice of Feasta, they have predicted most things correctly over the past ten year.  All around the country, people are so busy trying to hold on to their jobs that they cannot engage properly with this
problem.  There is no rush.

Let the banks fail.  Where is the evidence that the country will be thrown  into the abyss if the banks fail?  Believe me, I am good at maths, and it will be far worse for our national health and happiness if NAMA is to be implemented as proposed than if the banks were to fail.

Cowen is very weak at the moment and the senior civil servants know this. Try to find middle ground with Willie O’Dea, he is one of the most able and sensible people at cabinet and will understand well why we should not go with NAMA as planned.  This is our chance to break free from the yokes of tenantship, poverty and debt that have weakened the country since we won our freedom.

I appeal to your sense of patriotism to make the right choice for our children, and their children.  What is the worst that will happen if we nationalise the banks?  Now imagine the worst that will happen if NAMA
doesn’t work out as planned.

Is that convincing enough?

with love

Eoin

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Dear Sir,

As a small business owner operating in both the Irish and EU markets I am extremely concerned that the Government proposed bank and developer bailout “NAMA” is going to be press-ganged through the Dail and both kill off my business and destroy any prospect of economic recovery. Particularly in light of the fact that Fianna Fail have misled and mismanaged their way through the boom, which has resulted in the current economic meltdown. Remember what Bertie Ahern said when challenged, *”…there is no place for negativity. No need for any pessimism. Above all, there is no place for politically motivated attempts to talk down the economy and the achievements of our people across all sectors.” *

*You have to ask, who was funding Fianna Fail during the boom years? I propose that developers and bankers tainted the Government’s view due to large political donations and thus corrupted our Government…..now they expect Fianna Fail to bail them out. I note that no arrests have been made nor prosecutions pending for any mal-dealings by the banks or developers.*

NAMA will bankrupt Ireland and destroy the good that we have built up. I strongly feel that NAMA will have serious long-lasting negative consequences for the Irish taxpayer in the form of higher taxes and further severe cutbacks. I believe that there are equitable and viable alternatives such as temporary nationalisation. I urge you not to support NAMA.

You have the power to save or destroy our country. Please urge your members to withdraw from Government and attempt to form a new collation with the current opposition before this bill is passed.

Regards,

*Dion

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Dear Sir / Madam,

I strongly feel that NAMA will have serious long-lasting negative consequences for the Irish taxpayer in the form of higher taxes and further severe cutbacks.

– There are equitable and viable alternatives such as temporary nationalisation.

Do you support NAMA ?

I would like to see the Green Party fight against NAMA, and prove to the Irish public that they are a force to be reckoned with and not just hanging onto the coatails of Fianna Fail as they ( FF ) drag the country into the pit of disaster which in my opinion NAMA will surely be.

I always believed that the Greens could make a difference, now is your chance, stand up for all the people of Ireland and not just the selected few that this agency will protect.

I would like the Green Party to fight against the new NAMA initiative.

Thank you for taking the time to read this email, I hope it will make a difference.

Marie

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Why won’t the government lend the billions they’re wasting on this Nama B.S to the businesses that the banks are currently ruining by withdrawing overdrafts and refusing loans.

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Hi Niamh,

First of all many thanks for your prompt reply and I really appreciate you taking the time to do it as in truth I didn’t expect any reply.

I fully realise the dilemma the Greens are in but if you are really interested in political long term survival  (The Green Party) then as a party you need to start being political and that means getting out now before you are stamped FOREVER *(however unfairly)* as the people who sold our country down the river. Do you remember Richie Ryan? a good sincere man who took very unpopular decisions and was crucified for it politically.

Regarding alternatives I don’t think it’s the place for people like me to suggest them this is why we have economists although you would wonder where they were when the dogs in the streets knew there was going to be a crash.

Since you did invite me to offer alternatives I’d suggest the following as an ordinary lay person with no financial background :-

– Shut down Anglo Irish (to send a message to the banking world)
– Choose the bank with the least exposure to toxic assets and Nationalise    (Bank of Ireland?)
– Remove the guarantee scheme from all other Irish banks following a    deadline (to allow depositors to move their assets in an orderly manner if    they so choose).
– I would imagine AIB would be bought out as its the biggest bank and has    the largest customer base, it also has a high exposure to toxic assets so    would probably be broken up.

I know this will cause a lot of pain, unemployment and disruption but our generation made the mess, were the chief benefactors and therefore should take hit not future generations. Once the dust settled however lessons would have been learned by everyone including the banks and we would be the stronger for it. By bailing these guys out we have no guarantee that it won’t be business as usual.

I work for a multinational and they don’t hesitate to take hard decisions for the long term good of the company regardless of the short term consequences. That’s how companies survive and countries are no different.

*Finally* I believe NAMA will probably go ahead because nobody has the bottle to take the alternatives but if so *at least insist that the price paid for assets is the current market value* otherwise they will screw us  taxpayers. I do believe that there is a lot of good people and  talent in the Green party I only hope its around long enough to get the chance to demonstrate this.

Yours sincerely,

Gerry

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Get your finger out you fools, don’t sell Irish taxpayers down the river for the next thirty years in order to yet again bail out the bankers! Your hands are already dirty enough from your sordid association with Fianna Fail!

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You lot better keep a tight rein on Nama, and make sure that everything in it is accountable to the public or the voting public will wipe you out in the next election. Stand up to FF for once in the govt.

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You sold out. Your cosmetic changes don’t make any difference to the robbery that NAMA. You are a disgrace.

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I as a taxpayer do not want to share any risk with any bank (aka subordinated bonds that will get paid to the banks regardless).

I did not get us into this mess so why should I take on risk? I don’t like gambling. They spun the wheel and lost and now we have to bail them out and share the risk for their next spin of the wheel? No thank you. I would rather let them pay for their actions.

Can you not see the lack of fairness in that? And the removal of directors. We all know this will be golden parachutes. Not one banker has been jailed yet. Why?

Colm

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Dear Ms. Kavanagh,

The Green Party debate on NAMA is coming up tomorrow.  I’m writing to tell you that I hope the Green party membership will do the sensiblething and reject this legislation.  I’m opposed to it on numerous grounds, foremost amongst which are:

– The cost
– The lack of oversight
– The apparent desire to reinflate the property bubble that has cost this country so much
– The fact that it’s doomed to failure

On this last point; the stated objective of the NAMA legislation is to get credit flowing in the economy and get the banks lending to business again.  In my opinion this will not be achieved by repairing bank balance sheets because the banks would sit on the money indefinitely.  Also what are the bets that FF wouldn’t encourage them to reinflate the property market by lending ridiculous mortgage amounts again?   Liquidity in the economy would be better achieved by finding a way to lend money directly to the businesses that need it.

If the government is going to put taxpayers’ money at risk they should cut out the middle man and get on with it.  The Fine Gael proposal seems to at least be focusing on the correct problem.  While I’m not familiar with the details, I’m sure any issues that have been indentified can be resolved.

I’ve been a Green voter since I turned 18, twenty years ago. Of course I now wish I’d joined the party so that I’d have a voice on NAMA.

I have heard the argument made – for example, yesterday by Eamon Ryan – that this is a time to make hard decisions rather than chopping and changing governments.  It’s my opinion that the Irish people, not the government, should decide between NAMA and the alternatives.  The Green Party is our only hope of getting this chance, and I feel that it’s the party’s duty to pull out of government and allow the Irish people to decide where we want to put our 50-odd billion.

Regards,

Ita

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Hi Fellow Greens,

I previously contacted each of you to express my concerns about the plan for NAMA. I honestly think that it is probably the best solution to a difficult problem. However, my reservations and strong concerns have been in relation to how much we pay for the loans we will take from the banks.

Based on Mr Lenihans presentation to the Dail yesterday, we are overpaying by €7 billion (15%). This is based on a very big assumption that the market has reached the bottom.

Why are we paying 15% more than market value?

What happens if the market continues to decrease?

I am so angry this morning with the idea that we are going to pay over the odds for anything. We done enough of that over the last 15 years.

It gets worse when I see the banks share price surge on morning trading. Although we have a large shareholding in the banks, it demonstrates the widespread belief that the banks have got the long end of the stick.

Unless there are major changes in figures that were announced yesterday, the next election will be the first time in many votes that I do not vote Green.

I feel so strongly on this that I can never see a way I can vote Green  again! (I thought long and hard before I made this statement)

Regards with hope,

John

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Hi Green Party Members

The toxic debt of 54 billion that your party is about to burden the tax payer with is insane.   The arrogance portrayed about NAMA been the only shown in town,  is just utter nonsense. NAMA is easily dissected with common
sense, you don’t pay 7,000,000,000 over the odds. Why is the valuation method been kept secret. If the society is going to pay for this mess we are entitled to know how you valued these loans on our behalf.

Your party is a disgrace.  Think of the most vile words that are used when lashing out in anger, rage and disgust, at the most greedy and selfish acts carried out by trio of FF, bankers and  developers. The anger for you is multiplied 10 fold, as you are traitors to all principals that your party once held.

Its to soon to see how much the banks will benefit but the initial signs are good for them.  There shareholders today are 23 % richer, while our national debt has increased by 54,000,000,000, to bring us to 102% of GDP according
to the Dutch bank ING.

Disgusted Voter

Gary

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As an Irish person I am totally opposed to the Nama legislation. I believe that those who are pushing and supporting this legislation are traitors to this country and to the future generations of irish people. The green party in supporting this legislation are forfeiting the future of my children with a gamble on property values.

The following are the reasons that I hold these views;

1). There is another game in town, in fact there are three alternatives, each of which minimise the risk to the ordinary irish citizens;

–         Let the banks fail, new banks will take their places ( History if full of stories of bank failure, and new banks always replaced them since there is money to be made)

–         Nationislation. ( Each way bet, irish citizens ( not bank shareholders) so  minimize risk

–         Good bank / bad bank.

2). This Nama legislation is based on a book drop valuation of 50% from the peak with a 15% add-on for future capital growth within the next 10 years. This 50% mark-down has no basis of being the bottom of the market. It could turn-out to be a 60% to 80%  reversal in property prices. Who then is going to pay the piper?.  The Nama valuation is a punt (on the bankers side), a gamble to be borne by future generations which fianna fail have no mandate to make.

3). The issue is not alone access to credit, but access to employment. Ireland has become vastly over- expensive for business (both indigenous and multi-national). Besides inefficient government the major portion of business cost is wages. The driver of wages over the last 10 years in Ireland has been accelerating and unsustainable property prices. The only way Ireland can attract future foreign investment (jobs) is to reduce its cost base. The nama legislation is trying to put a ceiling on property prices which will in turn put a floor on wage levels. Ireland needs a long period of zero wage growth to become somewhat competitive again. Otherwise we will continue to see an exodus of foreign multi-national jobs, and downward pressure on property prices.

4). Interest payable on loans can fluctuate. Supposedly 40% of the nama loans will provide enough income to pay the 1.5% interest bill on the 54 Billion. What sensitivity analysis has been done to prove that the income generation will pay the interest cost as the loan interest rate increases over the next 10 years?.  Where will the funds come from to pay for the future increasing nama  interest rate bills?

5). Overnight share prices in AIB has gained 25% on the New York stock exchange. 25% of 54 Billion is 13.5 Billion. Overnight a transfer of wealth has taken place from the ordinary irish citizen to the bank shareholders of 13.5 billion ( this is approximately one fifth of our national  debt). This alone shows the folly and cost of this nama legislation to ordinary irish citizens.

6) The risk sharing aspect whereby irish citizens take up 95% of the risk and banks take 5% is risk sharing in name only. This argument stops with the numbers.

I could add further points, but I believe the above points on their own highlight the folly of the nama legislation.

The fianna fail led government (greens included) needs to get real, get focused on the future of this country and its future generations. Stop this nama folly now, or resign from government. Better to lose an election now than live with the increasing guilt of being the party who lead the citizens of this country over the cliff to economic hardship and unfulfilled promise.

Yours Faithfully

Michael

————–

A Chara,

Please for the sake of future generations stop NAMA.. you well know its a builders/developers/bankers bail out for friends of FF.

I promise to vote and support your party in any future elections if you stop NAMA I am sure many thousands fell as I do and by stoping NAMA you will save your party..

regards
PAT MC D

————

Dear Green Party members,
Congratulations on the concessions that you did secure from FF on some areas of NAMA, and thank you for braving the difficult conditions that we are in.  I am still unconvinced of the accuracy of the valuation, nor the effectiveness of the oversight mechanisms in place.  I consider both to be wanting, and weighted in favour of the people that created this problem in the first place.

If the problem is a culture of debt and overspending, then the solution cannot be the same as the problem.  For a more workable solution, I refer you to Constantin’s NAMA trust.  If you can spare 25 minutes, he will explain his idea in 3 videos, at this link – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOknRQ1E7-o&feature=related  Dan Boyle had been in the room at the start of the meeting, but I believe he had to leave before Constantin’s presentation.  This videos explain why we cannot yet proceed with NAMA as proposed.

The group that pay for NAMA is the taxpayer, yet the taxpayer is barely mentioned in the legislation and is certainly not protected adequately.

The video above was recorded before the most recent publication of the loan valuations and amounts to be paid.  Last Thursday, Ronan Lyons produced a measured critique of the amounts announced, and I feel that his analysis shows that we are overpaying based on very weak valuations.

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/09/17/do-the-nama-figures-add-up-a-broader-and-more-realistic-assessment-of-long-term-economic-value/

Amazingly, it is on this latter commercial segment of the market, worth from   what I can see about €8bn – and only this €8bn alone – that is the subject of any form of yield analysis
……
But it must be remembered that *NAMA’s entire estimation of long-term value  hinges on rents holding constant in this subset (Dublin) of a subset (commercial projects) of a subset (projects underway) of a subset (Ireland) of the total loan book*. If Dublin was soaking up half of all commercial projects, this would suggest that NAMA is basing its entire long-term economic value on perhaps 5% of its proposed loan book.

In brief, the solution that FF have proposed is clearly still weighted in favour of those that support them.

I am a supporter of the Green Party, a voter and campaigner, and have a good understanding of the need for a sustainable economy from now on.  It does not look like FF will ever concede enough in this respect and would it not be better for you to achieve the breaking of the link between the Dail and the developers than token concessions such as a carbon tax that people will resent? The only way to break this link is to vote for no confidence in the government, if that is what the members ask for.

The Green Party is less than 10% of this government and can only have that much influence.  Future governments can be Greener.

Thank you for reading this.

Eoin

—————-

To All Members of the Green Party

The Green party was against the worst excesses of the property boom.  Now you are in power,  supporting Fianna Fail, the party that caused the worst excesses of the property boom. Fianna Fail the only party that has been in power through out the tiger years.  The top people of this party are inept and useless, and have wasted huge sums of money.  If such waste was carried out in the private sector at worst the business would be bust, at the very least the people responsible would be fired.

I agree with the audience on Pat Kenny;s new show, that the banks are holding property prices as high as possible as to get the best possible price from the tax payer.  It only common sense for the banks to achieve the best price possible for there share holders.  The government spending 54,000,000,000 on toxic debt is totally flawed and is quite simply “la la land” that the taxpayer may break even. Property prices at 30% peak reduction is still completely unaffordable for an indebted population whose unemployment is rising rapidly, on top of public service pay cuts and stealth tax increases.  People will not able to afford these properties, banks will not loan these huge sums of monies any more. Even if the tax payer does break even, society will not.   *Government borrowing is so high, that they will be forced to sell these properties before an economic recovery.  Unless you are happy to have thousands upon thousands of apartments and houses lying idle generating no income while people will be left to die in a underfunded health service, and children will be denied the chance of an affordable education*.  Of course the bankers and developers and yourselves will not have this problem.  If the Irish Independent is to believed many of you TD’s  who have wasted millions of public monies are set to receive multi million Euro pensions.

Like all politicians you make your arguments sound plausible in short sound bites before the listener has time to digest the facts of what you said. But once a bit analysis and thought goes into the Green Parties position, the only logical conclusion is that you have sold your sole to Fianna Fail at time when Green Politics is in vogue.

As Fintan O’ Toole pointed out why are you giving the Zombie Anglo Irish Bank 30,000,000,000 you already own it.  It is a not a high street bank.  It will not get credit to SME’s, as it focused on lending to large developers.

A general election would be best.   I have worked in many countries through Europe in the so called smart economy.  Sadly my next visit out of  Ireland will be forced economic migration.  There is close to half million people unemployed and this will take at least 10 years to put right.  The last time Ireland had serious economic problems, our population had minimal debts and our cost base was very cheap in comparison to our competitors.  Now the opposite is true.  This readjustment will cause serious pain and hardship for many people,  the party that brought this upon us should be removed from office.  The Green party has this opportunity  to give the people most effected by this crisis  there voice in a general  election.

Hopefully people will use democracy more effectively by sacking useless politicians at the ballot box.  This should force there successors not to make the same blunders.  Although the current cabinet are a hard act to  follow.

Regards

Gary

————–

Dear Green Party members,

Ok, we have been suckered, bullied, and threatened into voting yes on the Treaty that will lead to a federal “Superstate” of Europe, a U.S.E. if you will. Now, how do we get rid of those Fianna Fail failures in the Dail who have ruined this country financially for many years to come? Now the people need an election!

Come on the Greens, search through the dusty annals of your once highly principled past, try to remember what those principles actually were, and vote NO to the NAMA plan that is selling present and future generations of Irish people down the river and gives the bankers another ticket on the gravy train. FF will start to portray this result as an endorsement for their mismanagement of everything from the economy to health care, education, taxation, the property market, transport, social welfare, broadband provision, ecology, etc, etc. The Green Party going along with all this just proves that all it takes is an overblown ministerial salary and cushy pension to forget why one went into politics in the first place.

The present government has a popularity rating of 11%. this means that only 330,000 out of a voting population of 3 million want this government. Less than the population of Tallaght.

I am and hope to remain a Green voter. When a coalition was formed with Fianna Fail you really hit the bottom, forgetting your principled high ground that I always admired and I thought that this was the lowest the Green Party would get. But, you have now descended into purgatory by continuing to support this inept (at best) or corrupt (at worse) regime. NAMA is morally wrong, and other options are available. I am an ordinary taxpayer whose pension (unlike the Green Ministers and TD’s) has been decimated and the house I have put so much money into is now worth less than I paid because of the greed of the bankers that was let loose by the lack of control of your government. Now my taxes are bailing out the very bankers
who ruined us and are now charging between 3 and 5 times the ECB rate of interest to pay my mortgage. How is this fair?  How can this be only way? I am paying more taxes, and this inflated mortgage rate!  An example for you: I got a fixed rate of 3.4% for three years when the ECB interest rate was 2.5%. Now, the ECB rate is 1% and yet I am paying 3.75%.  What will  happen to all us mortgage payers over the next few years when interest rates climb, while we simultaneously try to pay more taxes, that is of course if we still have jobs?  Will the Green Party insist as part of NAMA that it will be illegal for any bank operating in the Republic of Ireland to charge more than, say 1% above the ECB rate?  This is reasonable given how much of our money they are getting you must agree?. The airy fairy “concessions” you have so far are about as concrete as the “guarantees” we got to vote yes to the Treaty. A REAL concession, is the one I just mentioned. A ceiling on mortgage rates for banks! We have ALREADY saved their skins, do you want to allow them to take our blood as well? (excuse the mixed metaphor!) Of course your erstwhile buddies in FF who go to Buswells for a few pints with  the bank managers won’t agree to that. God forbid that they can’t afford to pay for the house in Foxrock and the Merc.  And first class tickets for this gravy train is not confined to bankers either. Your own Dail colleague Mr. John O’Donoghue spending €90,000 of MY money on limousines, car hire etc and even having the gall to spend €472 to get a limo from one terminal to another at Heathrow when he could have taken  a FREE shuttle service. This is an example of the contempt and lack of respect shown for the hardworking Irish taxpayer by politicians in this country who are living the good life while we lay sleepless in bed wondering will we have a job tomorrow or when we will get that extra tax bill or a mortgage increase letter arrive in the post. You can say Mr. O’Donoghue is CEANN COMHAIRLE and not affiliated to your party, but he is part of the system you promised to change, and he spent this money between June 2007 and now, when we have been in a dire financial situation.  I thought…..if I remember that past Green Party I voted for,  that you would not accept this sort of behaviour. Have you all forgotten?

As a ordinary voter and taxpayer, I want this government to step down. I want to vote for a new honest Green party who rediscover their principles, of the great Green Party who brought hope for the future of this country, and indeed this planet.  Do you really want to go the way of the PD’s?. Do you really want the distinction of being the first Green Party in European politics to become extinct? Wake up and smell the roses! Get out while you can and save your party, and maybe even your souls!

Please, now that this undemocratic Treaty that no other European countries citizens had the opportunity to vote on, (except for the Dutch and French whose democratic right to say NO was stolen away by their respective governments through the simple but effective changing of it’s name from Constitution to Treaty.  In you heart of hearts, whether this Treaty is good or bad, you know it was NOT democratic.  I am hopeful that the Czechs will hold things up long enough (not likely I know) for the UK Conservatives to get into power and fulfill their promise of a referendum in the UK. This may not happen even if the Czechs haven’t ratified, as,  lets be honest, who can trust a politician these days!

That is all I have to say, but please remember there are millions of people in this country who feel the same way as I do.  Millions of people who do want this Government. Millions of people want change.  Consider this. As a Green voter, I voted for you to try to get FF out of government, as did many Green voters. We did not vote to see you prostitute yourselves by getting into bed with the party you once said you would never work with.  You even stood by while Bertie Ahern told bare faced lies and people were laughing at his explanations of the money in the safe!  You can still save your pride. You can again hold your heads high. Power is not worth selling your political soul for. Voters have long memories. Remember this as NAMA comes up for discussion shortly. Is it really worth a few more years in power, when all you are really doing is murdering the Green Party and destroying what remains of it’s reputation?

I would like to hear the thoughts of each and every one of you. As well as voting for a party, we also vote for the people of that party, and I would dearly like to know your individual views rather than the “party line”

Thank you and enjoy the weekend.

Brian

—————–

Dear Colleagues,

The founding Principle of all Democracy is that over 50% is a majority.

By insisting on a two-thirds majority, we are out of step with our colleagues across The EU. The French Green Party had a similar rule, but recently reverted to a simple majority.

John Gormley has manipulated our democratic system so that only 33% of party members will need to vote for NAMA for it to be passed (66% need to vote to leave based on Nama). This figure was obtained from the pre-vote survey (‘preferendum’) of our party members at The Sheraton Hotel in Athlone three weeks ago.

In effect, the result of our vote next Saturday October 10th has been manipulated using the results from the ‘preferendum’ 3 weeks ago so that both motions will be be sure to pass!

If we are to have any real Democracy in The Green Party then we need to set the percentage required for both motions at 50% like every other Green Party in The EU. Otherwise the only way for those members who do not agree with Nama to have their voices heard is to vote against the seperate motion to stay based on The Program for Government.

In effect the only way for us to carry the democratic vote by over 50% of The Green Party that Nama should be stopped is if we vote against the other seperate motion!

Our support base is already aware of Mr. Gormley’s deception & manipluation. Please see an example of the many articles currently circulating in the media about this.

We need to respect the Democratic wish by over 50% of The Green party that Nama be stopped or Mr. Gormley will end up splitting the party in two in order to stay in power!

Is Mise Le Meas,

Peader

————

Dear Sir, Madam,
I am writing to you to ask that you vote against supporting NAMA at your party’s meeting this weekend.

I voted for the Green Party in the last general election, believing it to be a party that stands for something different in Irish politics. I based this belief on the positions adopted by the party on several key issues over the past number of years, and on the party’s principles.

We believe in a range of policies to alter things for the better, from properly funded education and a better transport system, to improved primary health care and a fairer tax system. We believe in equality, in a political system that is transparent and in decision-making at community level. We understand that we need to plan now for our future energy needs.

It is very difficult to reconcile the above statement with support for a proposal that will effectively transfer billions of euros of public revenues to failed banks and their private investors. The details governing the NAMA proposal are far from transparent, particularly the costs to the Irish public. Nor can I possibly see how this transfer of public funds will further the causes of education, transport, health care, and a fairer tax system. Unless we are not talking of *public* education, *public* transport, or *public* heath care.

I would greatly appreciate if you could forward this to other party members who can vote this weekend.

Thank you for your attention.
Gerard

———————

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6 Responses to “Citizens emails”

  1. Peter Says:

    A previous post suggested that NAMA will sell properties back to same developer for a little more than NAMA paid for them. Couple of points: (1) it would be great if they could cause then NAMA would make a profit (2) unfortunately this will not happen because why would a developer pay more to NAMA for an asset they already own. NAMA is buying loans from the banks. The developer still owns the land (asset) unfortunately for him he also still has a loan against that asset (liability). Only change is he now owes that money to NAMA instead of the bank as NAMA has bought the loan of the banks.
    Just to clarify the developer still owes the amount of the original loan not the price NAMA has paid for it. In must cases the developer is bust as he is asset will never be worth the original loan value.

  2. Peter Says:

    Has anyone on this site ever considered that if we nationalise that the Tax payer will be exposed to all the assets in Nama + all other bank loans, which total close to €500bn. While there is an implicit subsidy to the banking sector by paying long term economic value for the assets it also improves the banks chances of raising private capital. This new private capital will take the hit first (before govt prefs) for any further losses the banks incur on their remaining loans, which if we are not near the bottom of the property market will be substanial. There is also the hiden costs of nationalisation to be consider the main one being a higher cost of borrowing for the state. The cost of borrow has actually fallen since NAMA was announced, with the NTMA raising 7bn with 15yr term yesterday yielding 5.47%. Last time we raised money was in June. Then we raised 6bn with a 10yr term yielding close to 6%. Usually the longer the term of the funding the more expensive. In this case we raised more with a longer Maturity and it cost us less.

  3. Brian Says:

    If you visit the following page on my blog, you’ll find a load of letters sent to senators and TDs and Letters’ Editors (several published) opposing Nama. See particularly the entry “Who are Government & Nama Trying to Fool?” via this link .

  4. Champagne Says:

    The Green Party need now to enter discussions with other parties to form a proper alternative government and quickly move to a General Election. The people of Ireland want the Green Party in government and in ministerial positions but not with Fianna Fail. If the Green Party continue to support FF in the setting up of NAMA, they are knowingly throwing away considered opportunities for this and future generations. As citizens, we have a duty to ensure that this does not happen. I respectfully request the members voting tomorrow to uphold the their beliefs and the green ethos and vote against this extraordinarily crude measure and engage in real politics to ensure their continued presence in government.

  5. Aidan J. ffrench MILI Says:

    Well done to all of for your strong, well-founded dissenting arguments!
    I am a former, very active member of the Wicklow Greens (5 years), who was close to the party membership up to May 2008, when I resigned. I voted against going into coalition with FF, which I have long held to be a corrupt cabal with little or no genuine committment to social sustainability and social justice. I feel fully vindicated in my opposition to coalition as the months go by.
    It’s with some amusement and not a little anger, I read Noel Dempsey quoted remarks in today’s Irish Times (Sat. 10 Oct.09), in which he says: “…we’re very much committed to a just and caring society into the future…”

    In retrospect I should have retained my GP membership so I’d have a vote today. But I work in local government in a very much neglected profession – compared to our EU neighbours – and due to potential conflicts of interest and a seemingly unethical offer from Gormley to be appointed to the Board of the Heritage Council, I had no real choice. I declined that – I don’t believe in nepotism, though John, depsite public statements to the contrary, apparently does. If you lie down with dogs………….!!

    Finally, I believe the GP meeting in RDS today is a real test of the integrity and soul of a party that is fast losing its way to the much vaunted, over-rated practice of pragmatism. Where’s the pragmatism in mortgaging our children’s future, in furthe impoverishing the working and non-working poor. The infiltration into the party of ‘non-political’ young, self-centred vain Celtic tiger cubs, is dangerous, when combined with the animal-rights zealots. God save us from them and their purist myopic ideology.

    I believe in the ideal of founding a left-of centre, New Republic. Short of Non-Violent, Civil Direct Action, I see little hope of unseating this Government.

    Keep fighting
    Aidan J. ffrench M.I.L.I
    Landscape Architect
    Past-President, The Irish Landscape Institute
    Bray, Co. Wicklow


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